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            "value": "Oliver and Mike discuss e-commerce, legacy code, technical debt, automated testing, test-driven development, refactoring, code vs. no-code solutions, and Mike's recent talk at PHP South West in Bristol.\r\n\r\n## Links\r\n\r\n- [Huboo](https:\/\/huboo.com)\r\n- [PHPUnit](https:\/\/phpunit.de)\r\n- [Laravel](https:\/\/laravel.com)\r\n- [Expression Engine](https:\/\/expressionengine.com)\r\n- [PHPBench](https:\/\/phpbench.com)\r\n- [Working in small batches](http:\/\/www.startuplessonslearned.com\/2009\/02\/work-in-small-batches.html)\r\n- [Cyclomatic complexity](https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Cyclomatic_complexity)\r\n- [Shopify](https:\/\/www.shopify.com)\r\n- [Drupal Commerce](https:\/\/drupalcommerce.org)\r\n- [PHP South West](https:\/\/phpsw.uk)\r\n- [Automica labs](https:\/\/automica.io)\r\n- [Mike on LinkedIn](https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/mikekarthauser)",
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